From Special Operations to the C-Suite: Lessons in Leadership

N: Could you give us a quick snapshot of your journey from special operations to the business world and what that looked like?

Chris: I joined the Army at 18 and spent 20 years in the United States Army—about 17 and a half of those in special operations—including a decade as a Delta Force operator, primarily on overseas missions. Most of my tenure as a Delta operator was during the Global War on Terrorism—Afghanistan, Iraq, and some work in the Horn of Africa—and included 11 combat deployments.

Then, over the last five years or so in the military, I transitioned out of a combat role into a more staff position, where I went to school and learned how the government develops, procures, and fields equipment.

As the Soldier Systems commodity lead for Special Forces Command, I was responsible for developing, resourcing, procuring, and fielding individual equipment for Special Operations soldiers. I did that for about two and a half years.

Then I served as Deputy Chief of Force Modernization, overseeing almost every piece of equipment fielded to Green Berets. Did that for about three more years and retired in 2015.

Afterward, I was offered a unique opportunity to work for a company called TYR Tactical, which produces equipment to protect soldiers, and ultimately served as their Chief Operating Officer.

[Afterward] I formed my own consulting company, so for the last four and a half years or so, I have provided consulting to companies interested in either entering the defense space or expanding their footprint in the US or abroad. So it was an interesting path. I said to my wife years ago, when I retire, I want to do something that doesn't involve me toting a gun because I've checked that box already. 

How military leadership translates to business success

N: Working in Soldier Systems, moving away from being on missions, how was that transition, and what kind of skills from that operations experience helped you in that position, and in your future business roles?

Chris: Years of operating in high-stress environments and in team environments where planning, taking into account your situation, planning for all possible contingencies, and then executing that plan as a member of a team directly translates to business, and it did for me.

From a leadership perspective, it was easy for me to step into a corporate environment and understand that different team members bring different things to the fight or the job. You need to put them in a position to perform at their best, and then combine their abilities within your team to drive business success.

So, there are a lot of straight lines there. Additionally, in business, especially in the early years, I found it interesting because the stresses in the business world are very different from the ones I dealt with in the service.

They were critical to the business's success and to the employment of everyone you employ, but they weren't life-or-death. It allowed me to step back, assess them, take the stress out of the situation, and try to make the best decision for everybody around.

N: And how do you bring out the best of those individuals, and how do you know how to put that together into a cohesive team?

Chris: The military teaches you to understand your strengths and weaknesses, and in business that's absolutely critical: knowing what you're good at and then surrounding yourself with people who are good at the things that you're not and then combining them into an effective team. 

It's about leaning into people's confidence in certain situations. When you're good at something, and someone lets you do what you're good at, you tend to excel.

Understanding your team, what makes them tick, and assessing those motivations builds confidence. Providing those motivations so they perform at their best is how you get it done and foster trust in leadership.

In the business world, just like in the military, it's the ability to sit back, assess, and then combine those people into effective teams.

The biggest myth About leadership

N: What do you think is the biggest misconception civilians have about leadership?

Chris: They assume that it's different outside the service than it is inside the service. Hollywood has taught us that service members, when given orders, do what they're told. And that's not necessarily the case, particularly in special operations. Every member of the team brings something and a skill set that complements everyone else's. And it's about understanding what those are and maximizing their potential to execute them.

N: What is the most important thing they can learn from leaders in special operations, for example? If you had to narrow it down to one principle or one piece of advice.

Chris: The meaning is the same: no matter how much you plan, things will always change. That's why the right people matter so much, whether you're talking Special Operations or business. If you ensure your team or organization understands "the commander's intent,"  your ultimate goal, and you build teams that know or are trained to think and problem-solve within the scope of your intent. They will build in contingencies for when things don't go according to plan. They will think on their feet when things change rapidly, and they won't be afraid to make decisions without coming back to the “Boss”. They will be flexible, agile, and adaptable, and will stay focused even when bullets start flying and a crisis arrives.

How mountaineering and nature aid in mental recovery

N: Moving on to more about the Seven Summits, your recovery, and what you think about modern self-care. What inspired you to pursue the Seven Summits for veteran mental health, and how is it part of your own healing?

Chris: Mountaineering and outdoor endeavors—hiking, backpacking, mountaineering, climbing, etc.—are very much like a military operation. You have to plan accordingly. You have to make sure you have the necessary equipment and the right people.

You have to understand the weather, environment, and terrain you're covering. And then have contingencies for when that plan doesn't work out.

One of the biggest appeals of mountaineering and pursuing the Seven Summits for me was that it made me feel connected to what I used to do, but in a completely different endeavor.

And being outdoors… It's one of the few places where you can use all your senses — sight, smell, hearing — everything is maximized in the outdoor environment with zero distraction.

So you can focus on the task at hand. And that clarity is brilliant; it's grounding, takes the stress out of everyday life, and reminds you of just how capable you are.

N: You talked in podcasts about your struggles with mental health and certain substance issues. How was the exact journey between the outdoors and all that in terms of part of that? How did that click in your mind or in your journey?  

Chris: I always appreciated the outdoors. It was actually my wife who picked up on it, and she knew that transitioning from the military to civilian life would be a challenge.

You've done something, and you know a certain community and a way of being for 20 years, and she knew I needed something to bridge that gap or separate that. So she asked what I wanted to do, and we started talking about doing a long thru-hike. We ended up settling on the John Muir Trail, and that was three weeks in the wilderness, 210 miles through the mountains, the Sierra Nevada in California. And what I found was that, about 3 days in, there was no distraction, no cell phone, no email, no communication with the outside. Just my significant other and me, walking through the wilderness. We walked all day and were exhausted.

But it gave me time and space away from distraction to process some of the loss and some of the mental health challenges that I had during the service. It gave me the space and time to open up and discuss it with someone significant to me, so I could talk about some things with someone who knew nothing about it and share a part of myself I had bottled up for many years.

And that sort of awakening of communication and understanding is that if you don't talk about those things and get those things out, you're going to continue to break down in high-stress environments. 

So three weeks in the wilderness taught me a lot. It taught me how to communicate again. It taught me how to share my experiences. It taught me how to process and deal with some of those experiences, all while still functioning in a physical environment where I had to accomplish tasks every single day.

But removing yourself from the world's distractions and taking time to really reflect internally—runners experience this all the time. You get into a rhythm, and that's probably more mental than physical. Your body adapts and gets used to it.

But your mind settles in, gets calm, and you think clearly, think about singular thoughts, and work through and process them. And that is an incredible experience that very few places, other than the outdoors, long-distance running, and things like that, really provide you.

N: What do you think is the biggest myth about “soldiering” through long-term stress?

Chris: I think it's that the expectation is that you suck it up and keep moving. It's that you bottle that stuff up, bury it deep, and keep pressing through it. It's the old American adage: You just put your head down and fight through it. And that works for a time until it doesn't. And when it doesn't, it can be catastrophic.

My biggest piece of advice is you have to talk about it. You have to communicate. You have to work through those issues, and it may take you a long time, but just the effort, the mechanics of starting to work through those issues, will make it easier and easier as time goes by.

So, the biggest misconception is that you need to suck it up and drive on. It's the opposite. You need to pause. You need to conduct a self-assessment. You need to deal with, or at least begin to deal with, some of those things so you can refocus and be effective.

Identifying the telltale signs of burnout

N: How do you know what the telltale signs are? I think there are certain situations where you need to push through and suck it up. So, how do you differentiate?

C: Long-term fatigue is a huge indicator. If you're having problems with mental clarity, if you're always tired, if you're always exhausted, your body will tell you. Your body will tell you in a million ways. When you have a long-term issue where you feel like that for extended periods of time, and I'm talking weeks and months, that's when you know you have some internal issue that you need to deal with, be it physiological or mental.

If you're a person who takes care of yourself, i.e., you're fit, and you eat well. The moment you start seeing changes without changing your lifestyle, you know something else is amiss, and you need to address it, because mental fatigue will have physiological effects on your body that you'll notice if you're paying attention, even if nothing else has changed. “So why am I gaining weight? Why am I exhausted when I'm still getting six hours of sleep at night? I'm still going to the gym three to four days a week. I'm still eating three meals a day, like I haven't cut things out.” That's when you know it's probably mental health stress. It's something internal that you need to look into. Self-assessment is probably the biggest key. And then professional assessment. Being unafraid as an individual to seek help, to go see a doctor and say, "Hey, what's going on here?" If you're having mental health struggles, see a mental health specialist.

It's as simple as starting with someone that you care about that cares about you. Just talking about what's going on, because you never know when the person to your left or right is going to go, "Ah, man. You know, three years ago, I was going through a very similar thing, and this is what it was.”

And that may be the indicator that drives you to seek assistance, deal with whatever it is, and move on to the next.

"Highs and lows" of life: Why the Peak & Vale philosophy resonates

N: A question about Peak and Vale. What motivated you to support something like this when we literally had nothing, just an idea? What was it that was like, " Oh, this is actually interesting” — in what way do you see potential?

Chris: The first one I'll give you is more superficial. Peak and Vale: the concept of highs and lows. That's been the pattern of my life. I've been through a lot of incredible highs and been a part of some amazing things, and I've also been through a lot of incredible lows and dealt with a lot of loss. And that’s the comparison to life.

That was probably the first thing that drew me to it.

Second, I love new and innovative companies. When we first talked, you mentioned innovation in fabric. You talked about biotextiles and doing some things that people necessarily haven't done a lot. That's special, and it really appealed to me.

Third, and this is purely personal, I love the outdoors. I love to travel. And one of the early things you said to me was, "This is a lifestyle-focused brand. It's focused on people who want to do a lot with a little and mix pieces to accomplish multiple tasks.  I told you this before — I have a gym uniform. I’m gonna wear the same tank top and shorts, and I'm gonna buy six pairs because I don't want to think about my clothes when I'm supposed to be focused on my fitness. And it was super enlightening for me, and I love that. I was like, this is what I wear for this. And so when you and I talked early on, we talked about, you know, developing pieces that fit together.

So, if I was packing for a trip and conducting business in some city internationally, and at the same time I wanted to get away that weekend to take a hike in the mountains and get some time in, I could pack a bag with minimal stuff and accomplish all those tasks. Those are the big three for me. But yeah, there's a special place in my heart for upstarts. The clothing industry is hard, and I'd love to see someone innovative and doing new things succeed.

N: Well, thank you, Chris. One last question. What is one thing you can't live without when you travel? You have to bring it everywhere.

Chris: One thing I can't live without. I'm trying to think of something that I bring with me no matter what. I would bring a hard shell with me. Whether we're talking about the outdoors or travel, I can protect myself from the elements, no matter the time of year or where I'm at.